A late night conversation between Valentine, Slave and Thalia. Somewhere in Ukrainian Village, Chicago.

Gateavisa: Hey, this is Valentine and I’m talking to Slave about his relationship to Thalia and what makes him tick. How did you meet Thalia, Slave?

Slave: So, I met Thalia through a dominatrix ad. She was extremely attractive and her profile was written very intelligently. She sounded like a true, real dominant. There are many out there that aren’t. They just want to experiment with it and really don’t have it in their blood. After a couple of meetings—well, actually after the first meeting I knew there was a connection there. This was about 12 years ago.

How did the meeting come about? You said you found her online.

We arranged a meeting to discuss my interests. In the beginning, we were just getting to know each other’s and trying to find a certain balance between each others needs. A certain rhythm. I found out rather quickly though, that this was going to be more about me getting molded to meet her interests.

What is that process like? How did you get to the point where you are now?

Well, I’ve learned and evolved and become more comfortable. She’s very dominant and very effective at molding me and training me. Using my interests and desires… um—with her knowing them, she would be able to kind of systematically, over time, mold me to become a slave. In the beginning, in my earlier life, I was trying to get what I wanted. But over time it became more of a power exchange where I was doing what she wanted. At the same time, she was very effective at fulfilling my needs. I have a natural submissive desire.

I recall thinking all the way back to my adolescent years and my first sexual thoughts. It came naturally to me to like dominant women. I didn’t know what any of this was about, of course, but I pursued it. [Coughs] I have developed into becoming more valuable to Thalia. There are many things I’m doing now that I wouldn’t imagine myself doing 10 years ago. Thalia knew that would happen, that I would be molded into this, but I didn’t until… um—until it did happen.

What are these differences you’re talking about? How were you before as opposed to now?

You know, this stuff, it’s not necessarily something that men will want to talk about with other men, that they’re submissive to a woman and do this and enjoy the power exchange and even objectifying and humiliating treatment. It seems to be a desire, a craving that I have so that’s my fulfillment. I was needier in the past and would want things, like I said, more my way and I would, even though I was submissive, try to control some of the activities I would do or wouldn’t do. Over time I have let go more and more. I’ve become more comfortable with being objectified and humiliated and degraded by her. Just talking about it puts me in a more submissive mode.

I’ve, for instance, basically given up on other women. So, my sexual desires are focused on her, even though we don’t have sex she controls me sexually and I would even rather be owned and controlled by her than having a girlfriend and traditional sex. I spend more time waiting and doing things that are just meant to please her. I’ll do all her tedious things, tasks. So basically, I’m her maid and errand boy.

It strips me of my personality and humanity. Like she doesn’t allow me to speak without permission and that’s been going on for at least 5 years or so. Before I would speak and try to make jokes and be funny and I did that as part of maybe some kind of…

Defense mechanism.

Defense mechanism, thank you. But now I’m comfortable with being used in front of others.

What do you mean by being used in front of others?

Wearing a collar like I am now and being told what to do in front of others. I learned to enjoy that. I didn’t like doing it in front of other men though, but she was able to push me and break me through to being used in front of others. Now I really enjoy it and I’m proud of being her object and slave. Now she uses me in front of her lovers or even sometimes at a bar or outside a bar in front of a complete stranger. She will get me on my knees and on a leash and slap me, spit on me. And I’ve become, I’ve learned to…

Obey.

Obey and enjoy it, thank you. So I never thought it would go as far as it did with her, being able to show her ownership of me. It gives me fulfillment.

And, I’m hesitant to say this, um, I’m heterosexual, however, she’s forced me to have my cock sucked, and I’ve even sucked cock, something I never thought I would do. What got me through it was to know that I have to obey her and that it’s basically pleasing her, and she’s taken me to the point where… um—I really don’t have a choice in what I’m gonna do, what I can do or not do. She controls that and I have enough trust in her to know that the things we’re doing are safe. I’m not gonna hurt anyone or myself.

It’s very psychological. It was tough to do though, sucking cock…

She pushed your boundaries.

Broke my boundaries. We’ve even tried various chastity devices. There are these Frenum piercings. Most chastity devices don’t really work, you can kinda move out of them. But we tried a piercing that goes all the way through the cock with a chastity device that could be locked in there. In theory, there’s no way you’d be able to get out of one of those but even that didn’t really work. I kept one for a year.

I never got a device that worked perfectly and I have some regrets about it, that the power exchange couldn’t go that far. It was a big decision for me to go ahead with doing that, which is another thing I never thought would happen. Again, she was able to, over time, condition me to the point where I really wanted to do it. To show that I totally surrender to her. I knew that was going to definitely eliminate seeing other women.

I still keep this secret as far as with my friends. They kinda know I have interests in, you know, dominant women and leather and all of that. I don’t think any of them know to what extent. I think if I told them that I’m owned and serve a dominant woman, they wouldn’t be surprised, but I think the specifics would be surprising to them…

Uh—I just lost my train of thought [coughs]

This has ebbed and flowed this thing between us. There are times when I’ve been deeply owned, where I can serve her a few times a week and be used in many ways. The chauffeuring, the errands, the cleaning, the maid service.

There are times when I start to feel overwhelmed by it. Like I’m not getting enough out of it. It gets too powerful. I’ll have some difficulty and challenges and feel like, gee, I don’t want to do this, this isn’t working, I need to get out of this. I think the longest period without her was a couple of months. I even got a girlfriend and I tried that for a little while but I didn’t work. I still have this natural submissive urge and that need and desire to serve. And Thalia is the one.

I seem to always have been owned to some degree, but she’s very good at working with me. She knows my limits and how much to push and when to let go. I wish I knew her when I was younger, but it wouldn’t have worked anyways ‘cause she would have been too young.

What was the girlfriend like that you had for a little while? Why didn’t it work out?

I realize I have to have some kind of dominating relationship and she would do a little bit of it, but it wasn’t in her nature. For those with a natural inclination I think it’s something you can learn and develop. I’ve become more and more submissive. A better object. Certainly, Thalia has gotten better. Age and experience help, like with anything.

Practice makes perfect!

This girlfriend was somebody I met in college and we had a good rapport and we [coughs] we tried [coughs] a couple of things here and there. I would buy various clothing items, but it wasn’t really what she wanted. There were a couple of other women. I would try to introduce them to it. We would experiment a little but again, they were just kind of doing it to try to work it out with me. It’s evident now that my [coughs] strong desire is to serve and to be told what to do and to please Thalia.

She was able to really zone in on my natural tendencies and my weaknesses and I was glad she was able to mold and break me down and manipulate, recondition me, and train me to be of value to her. It’s more important to know that I’m of value to her because I have to be. I’m not her friend, I’m not her lover, I’m her servant, maid, object… and she knows that. She’s tried to allow me to be more conversational, but that didn’t work. There were times where I would feel like showing her friends that I have some intelligence, some humor, but now that desire isn’t there anymore, because my focus with Thalia is to please her.

And not her friends.

And not her friends. Unless she tells me to. So I don’t have to impress anybody or worry about saying anything.

Does that feel like taking a load off your mind?

Actually, it does. Through giving up more control and surrendering, my personality has been freed in an away. Her strict treatment has a freeing effect on me. Ah but there’s the irony… there’s some freedom in slavery so to speak. When serving her I don’t have to do any deep thinking, or rather, it’s basically… just do as I’m told and don’t question it.

Over time, I have learned more about her needs and desires and how she likes things. From how her bed should be made to what items to purchase, so she doesn’t have to tell me everything all the time. I love when she tells me what to do and the more specific the more I love that, but I don’t expect that because it would be somewhat of a burden on her.

Like, I’ll clean the kitchen and she does come in occasionally. I would love for her to tell me… «Ok, do those dishes and let me inspect them» and have detailed control over me, but that kind of defeats some of the purpose. I don’t want to bother her.

She is very intelligent.

Yeah, and that adds a lot to the dominant personality.

I feel like you must have learned a lot from Thalia.

Well, not a skill specifically, but more about myself I would say. A lot of it is discipline of course… and also just not speaking has its benefits. Just shutting up and listening.

Has it informed anything that you’ve done outside of this relationship? Like at work or people that you interact with outside of this situation?

Yeah, you know that’s a really good question. I don’t know the exact answer to it. But I feel like I’ve developed in all other areas of my life. As far as work, for instance, I’ve done really well, better than I ever thought I would. I ended up managing a group, I’ve coached baseball over the years, I’ve been a grammar school teacher for a few years.

Interestingly, by not speaking and listening I have gained more confidence in speaking in front of others in my life. I’ve become a better communicator. She’s pretty big on being concise and succinct, which I like. So I’m more aware of that in all aspects of my life now.

I have become more self-reflective. Like, «why am I like this?» Initially, I thought, «is there something wrong with me?», «This is crazy, why am I doing this?» But then over time I became more accepting of it and realized… well hey, I used to compartmentalize and separate this from all other aspects of my life but it ended up just kind of nagging at me. So accepting it and doing it basically freed me up to live my life to the fullest.

Grow as a person.

[Coughs] Yes, I feel that I have definitely grown as a person and grown as an object/slave as well.

They both influence each other perhaps?

Yeah, that would be interesting to delve into, discover what kind of crossover there might be and kind of how this part of my life affects the other parts and vice versa. I definitely know I’ve developed [coughs] over the years.

Excellent, so it seems like it’s a pretty positive experience for you as a person. If you had a friend who found out, how would you express what this experience has been like for you?

Depending on what they found out. I would be able to share some of it. But you know, not the extent of the details I’ve told you. With my ex-wife, we did some dominant/submissive stuff and took some pictures. When the relationship ended she tried to use those pictures against me. She said she was going to share those with other people, like even at my work.

Oh my god.

I ended up telling a couple of people. I wasn’t sure if I should tell my boss or not or somebody at work. But she never did anything with them. That was the closest it ever came to some critical point.

You obviously trusted her enough to marry her so that sucks that someone would use that against you.

Yeah, but I’m kind of winding down work wise now. I work part-time and it’s not as big of an issue today as it would have been before…

What kind of environment did you use to work in or do you work in now? Is it a highly stressful environment?

I was selling insurances to businesses, so I had the financial pressure and had to meet goals [coughs]

Do you need water or something?

[coughs] Yeah, I’ll get it.

Thalia: Come here! *Slap… slap… slap* (whip)

Slave: You know when I’m allowed to speak, Thalia requires me to keep a low tone and not talk in my normal voice. My controlled tone is not as… animated.

Gateavisa: That’s good for speaking though, you sound more…

Thalia: It used to be really obnoxious

Gateavisa: Oh! [giggles]

Thalia: I should probably jump in here.

Gateavisa: Go ahead.

Thalia: I’m just going to speak about the modulation of voice. It goes in the same vein as the the ego destruction as far as it/him trying to show off in front of my friends or trying to show personality. It’s all ego driven.

Slave: It’s meditative to be objectified and dehumanized so that you’re not thinking of anything other than your set purpose. This seems cruel, but it’s true.

I was noticing at the beginning of our relationship… for lack of a better thing to call it, his voice would go into this kind of friendly happy dog tone.

The way he would speak to people he was working with. This was not appropriate at all and it would grate on me and so I’d always tell him to work on mastering the economy of words and modulate his voice. I wanted him to speak as little as possible and less obnoxiously as possible. I could feel that he was overexerting himself because he’s used to being a salesperson and used to hanging out with his buddies and used to this sort of crappy vocal cadence that I didn’t want to hear fucking up my day.

When I’m alone with him I want to be completely relaxed and have it not take any skin off my back whatsoever. So I was able to train him to speak when spoken to and to modulate his voice. Just sneak into the background and be as calm as possible, so that it doesn’t stress me out.

I’m too empathic to let someone wag their tail that hard around me and have it not be taxing.

Gateavisa: It is a pleasant tone.

Thalia: Well it just… it does everybody a favor! You’re [Slave] not working as hard, I’m not working as hard. Even if you have only one thing to say, it’s all about the tonality and the frequency and the measure of your voice.

Gateavisa: Less is more here.

Thalia: In this particular instance, yes. I usually don’t ascribe to that whatsoever, but in this instance, yeah.

Gateavisa: Shut the fuck up and listen like he said!

Thalia: [laughs] Oh — yeah or like shut the fuck up and lets everybody shut the fuck up.

Gateavisa: That sounds good, honestly. Lets shut the fuck up and take some pics.

This conversation took place while Slave was suffering from advanced cancer. We obviously wish him all the best.